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Re:Joni M : Dylan 14 Years ago
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Littlesadie wrote:
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Okay, but one listen to this and one asks, "Will the real Bob Dylan please stand up."
My favorite moment in that clip, at 1'48"
Johnny: "'Cos you're right from your side, Bob, but I'm right from mine"
Bob: "I know it!"
I'd love to hear how he'd respond to Joni's outburst.
He'd probably just give her one of those stares. 
Or maybe he'd find it hilarious.
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Last Edit: 2010/04/23 18:01 By MinstrelBoy.
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elmer (User)
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Re:Joni M : Dylan 14 Years ago
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...alias... wrote:
QUOTE:
.... or, how about this ... which I think she WROTE FOR BOB...
haha
" Your a mean ol' daddy ..... but I LIKE you "
...gotta love Joni ....
actually she wrote it for cary raditz, a character she met during the time she spent in matala on crete in 1968-69. it has nothing to do with bob, whose version of big yellow taxi i kind of like
you can read more about raditz and her and all of it here:
http://crete.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/joni-michell-in-matala-crete/
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Last Edit: 2010/04/23 18:16 By elmer.
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Re:Joni M : Dylan 14 Years ago
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Why, that squalling two-timing Canadian excuse for an alleycat! I'll scratch her eyes out the next time I see her. She can't talk about our sweet little innocent boy like that.
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Warren (User)
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Re:Joni M : Dylan "not authentic _ plagiarist _ fa 14 Years ago
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It's worth reading the whole LA Times article to get a context for the quote.
Joni didn't just ring up a reporter to give that quote and then hang up.
The interview was provoked by a drag artist who's been performing Joni's songs and persona in a one (wo)man show so much of the interview revolves around the extent to which identity is performed and how it changes over time. This is one of the reasons why bob appealed as a subject to Todd Haynes. She also says in the interview:
"I'm a method actress in my songs".
Her work has often been overtly confessional, bob's has rarely been so. I'm not so sure she thinks bobs deceptiveness is a bad quality - with her knowledge of visual art she'd be aware of the Picasso quote that 'Art is the lie that tells the truth'.
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Re:Joni M : Dylan 14 Years ago
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She said in a hostile way something that's absolutely true. Her hostility is her business--she knows the man, and she obviously has her reasons. It doesn't bother me one way or another. I like Bob, and I like Joni, and it makes no real difference to me if they don't like each other. As to the truth of what she said--hasn't Bob, for his whole career, been trying on poses, trying out voices, taking what he needed wherever he found it? Isn't that what he's all about in the end, whether you want to call phoniness or a kind of genius? Singer-songwriters are supposed to be a sensitive bunch, all about sharing their feelings and touching you with their sincerity. Well, Bob isn't sincere, and that's what I love about him. He isn't real; he's something better than that. And Joni is more complicated than that too, but this isn't a Joni forum.
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philochs (User)
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Re:Joni M : Dylan 14 Years ago
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were this a joni forum, which i understand it is not, i might be tempted to relate my experience of attending her concert on the boston common in the eighties. she refused to come on stage until the sponsor's mural was replaced with a painting of her own choosing. after at least an hour, the murals were changed, and the performer came onstage, but the someone in the audience made a remark that sent her crying back into the wings.
since it is a bob forum, i might suggest that the mangy canadian alleycat was upset about the lyrical changes he made to big yellow taxi in his efforts to transform the singer from female to male. but that probably is nothing compared to the basic hostility that one hump puppy nearly always has for another.
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Chimes (User)
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Re:Joni M : Dylan "not authentic _ plagiarist _ fake" 14 Years ago
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On Hecht—a poet neglected in recent years—Ricks meditates on his allusiveness. Hecht himself reflected widely in an interview, quoted in True Friendship, that he "borrowed" freely from earlier poets. "The borrowed voices, I should like to hope, lend a sort of ancestral authority to what I am trying to say, but they also represent a kind of homage on my part."
She acts like another member of the Dead Poet's Society; but I won't say who that is. Its simply a matter of perception or not.
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Re:Joni M : Dylan 14 Years ago
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Chimes wrote:
QUOTE:
On Hecht—a poet neglected in recent years—Ricks meditates on his allusiveness. Hecht himself reflected widely in an interview, quoted in True Friendship, that he "borrowed" freely from earlier poets. "The borrowed voices, I should like to hope, lend a sort of ancestral authority to what I am trying to say, but they also represent a kind of homage on my part."
She acts like another member of the Dead Poet's Society; but I won't say who that is. Its simply a matter of perception or not.
Hecht might have 'admitted' to borrowing freely from other poets, but when did Dylan ever 'admit' to it? That's the difference.
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Chimes (User)
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Re:Joni M : Dylan "not authentic _ plagiarist _ fake" 14 Years ago
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Yes, that could be a difference. My thoughts, however,
were leaning towards the difference between a critic and a writer's criticism.
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Re:Joni M : Dylan 14 Years ago
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Derek wrote:
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"his name and voice are fake"
Well the name - OK. But voice? I guess a few of them over the years might have been fake but anyone care to guess which is the "real" Dylan voice?
All of them. Like Emerson, like all of us, like Joni herself, he contains multitudes. A singing voice is just a style. Does Joni today dress in the same style as she did in the 60's? Of course not. So was she a fake then or now? Dumb question.
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Re:Joni M : Dylan 14 Years ago
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PlainJane wrote:QUOTE:
hasn't Bob, for his whole career, been trying on poses, trying out voices, taking what he needed wherever he found it? Isn't that what he's all about in the end, whether you want to call phoniness or a kind of genius? Singer-songwriters are supposed to be a sensitive bunch, all about sharing their feelings and touching you with their sincerity. Well, Bob isn't sincere, and that's what I love about him. He isn't real; he's something better than that.
What could be better than real? What could be good if it isn't in the deepest sense real? Artistry isn't borowing, and it isn't stealing either. It's learning. The artist learns just as children learn from adults and adults learn from each other. Bob doesn't try on poses. He grows.
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oldfan (User)
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Re:Joni M : Dylan 14 Years ago
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PlainJane wrote:
QUOTE:
She said in a hostile way something that's absolutely true. Her hostility is her business--she knows the man, and she obviously has her reasons. It doesn't bother me one way or another. I like Bob, and I like Joni, and it makes no real difference to me if they don't like each other. As to the truth of what she said--hasn't Bob, for his whole career, been trying on poses, trying out voices, taking what he needed wherever he found it? Isn't that what he's all about in the end, whether you want to call phoniness or a kind of genius? Singer-songwriters are supposed to be a sensitive bunch, all about sharing their feelings and touching you with their sincerity. Well, Bob isn't sincere, and that's what I love about him. He isn't real; he's something better than that. And Joni is more complicated than that too, but this isn't a Joni forum.
No ONe mentioned the most obvious part of this story...and considering this is a website as other dylan websites devoted to him - because of his ability to deliver/phrase/put-on/be tongue-in-cheek/sarcastic/silly/what have you...till someone hears the TONE of her voice and phrasing to judge is ludicrous....think people think.
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elmer (User)
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Re:Joni M : Dylan 14 Years ago
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saut de basque wrote:
QUOTE:
Derek wrote:
QUOTE:
"his name and voice are fake"
Well the name - OK. But voice? I guess a few of them over the years might have been fake but anyone care to guess which is the "real" Dylan voice?
All of them. Like Emerson, like all of us, like Joni herself, he contains multitudes. A singing voice is just a style. Does Joni today dress in the same style as she did in the 60's? Of course not. So was she a fake then or now? Dumb question.
actually your allusion should have been to whitman and not emerson for the lines are from leaves of grass:
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.
— Walt Whitman
i agree you could say emerson does contain multitudes (as do all of us, as you say) but your remark as it stands is very misleading as to source
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Last Edit: 2010/04/24 05:20 By elmer.
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billyg (User)
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Re:Joni M : Dylan "not authentic _ plagiarist _ fake" 14 Years ago
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CENSORED on the pool, for telling the truth ? - time to call it a day - goodbye  |
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