The Never Ending Pool

elmer wrote:actually your allusion should have been to whitman and not emerson for the lines are from leaves of grass:[/quote]
Oh, that's right. Thanks for the correction.

It reposted instead of edited

Double Post

See my response in bold within the text

b]Warren wrote:[/b]

QUOTE:
Littlesadie wrote:

QUOTE:
Warren wrote:

QUOTE:
.
Littlesadie wrote:

QUOTE:
Warren wrote:

QUOTE:
.
Littlesadie wrote:

QUOTE:
[...]but, what, exactly, did she say that wasn't true?

Then there's this post by none other than double ee in the Comments at americansongwriter.com:

so what did she say was untrue?


http://www.americansongwriter.com/2010/04/joni-mitchell-slanders-bob-dylan/


Priceless.

Either quote me or don't quote me Warren, but don't quote me half assed when you can do it whole assed.

See my post in bold

I trust that by "half assed" you actually mean, partially. I'll quote you or anyone else as I see fit, "Littlesadie." If you had paid attention instead of being so trigger-happy, you would have noted that I inserted an elipsis inside square brackets to indicate that I wasn't quoting you completely. I didn't quote you completely because whatever else you said was not germane to my point.

What you selectively lopped off was substantial to my position on the subject and very relevant. It was to stress my appreciation for the man's body of work, but that there were also questionable things. Good lord knows I'd be pointed at for Bob bashing which was not my intent and what I posted was important to that point. To selectively extract what you want out of context to make some point on your position is half-assed.

QUOTE:
No one has yet been able to say how on this forum yet.

How what?

How she was wrong.

QUOTE:
Just because one article's headline uses the word 'slander' doesn't necessarily make it so.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

The specific article you linked says this: http://www.americansongwriter.com/2010/04/joni-mitchell-slanders-bob-dylan/

Which, in what may be my fault, was an assumption of a point you were trying to make.

QUOTE:
Tell us, Warren, why do you think she's wrong in what she says. Rip that article apart and HER quotes and tell us why.

Did I say she was wrong in what she said? I didn't say a thing one way or the other about her!

That is correct Warren, as I stated what was it you contributed to the thread topic and not to the poster in it? (As, apparently, with this post you are claiming you said nothing about Joni's remarks). Except to link an article that has been written 6 different ways to Sunday and read by anyone posting in here already and posted in the first post of this thread.

QUOTE:
You've contributed nothing here except to quote half assed and re-quote an article that's already been posted in several places and read.

I did not re-quote an article. I provided a link to substantiate a claim that I made.

What claim? You just stated you made no point either way.

QUOTE:
So, are you here to contribute or just attempt to stir a pot again where no problem exists?

Attempt? I kinda get the feeling that I succeeded. :)

At what?

QUOTE:
What are YOUR opinions on what SHE said?

I haven't yet formulated one. Sorry.

Your original post makes absolutely no sense to me and this post doesn't really make any more sense of it. When you do formulate an opinion, I think everyone would be happy to hear it.

[/quote]

Littlesadie wrote:

QUOTE:
See my response in bold within the text

b]Warren wrote:[/b]

QUOTE:
Littlesadie wrote:

QUOTE:
Warren wrote:

QUOTE:
.
Littlesadie wrote:

QUOTE:
Warren wrote:

QUOTE:
.
Littlesadie wrote:

QUOTE:
[...]but, what, exactly, did she say that wasn't true?

Then there's this post by none other than double ee in the Comments at americansongwriter.com:

so what did she say was untrue?


http://www.americansongwriter.com/2010/04/joni-mitchell-slanders-bob-dylan/


Priceless.

Either quote me or don't quote me Warren, but don't quote me half assed when you can do it whole assed.

See my post in bold

I trust that by "half assed" you actually mean, partially. I'll quote you or anyone else as I see fit, "Littlesadie." If you had paid attention instead of being so trigger-happy, you would have noted that I inserted an elipsis inside square brackets to indicate that I wasn't quoting you completely. I didn't quote you completely because whatever else you said was not germane to my point.

What you selectively lopped off was substantial to my position on the subject and very relevant. It was to stress my appreciation for the man's body of work, but that there were also questionable things. Good lord knows I'd be pointed at for Bob bashing which was not my intent and what I posted was important to that point. To selectively extract what you want out of context to make some point on your position is half-assed.

QUOTE:
No one has yet been able to say how on this forum yet.

How what?

How she was wrong.

QUOTE:
Just because one article's headline uses the word 'slander' doesn't necessarily make it so.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

The specific article you linked says this: http://www.americansongwriter.com/2010/04/joni-mitchell-slanders-bob-dylan/

Which, in what may be my fault, was an assumption of a point you were trying to make.

QUOTE:
Tell us, Warren, why do you think she's wrong in what she says. Rip that article apart and HER quotes and tell us why.

Did I say she was wrong in what she said? I didn't say a thing one way or the other about her!

That is correct Warren, as I stated what was it you contributed to the thread topic and not to the poster in it? (As, apparently, with this post you are claiming you said nothing about Joni's remarks). Except to link an article that has been written 6 different ways to Sunday and read by anyone posting in here already and posted in the first post of this thread.

QUOTE:
You've contributed nothing here except to quote half assed and re-quote an article that's already been posted in several places and read.

I did not re-quote an article. I provided a link to substantiate a claim that I made.

What claim? You just stated you made no point either way.

QUOTE:
So, are you here to contribute or just attempt to stir a pot again where no problem exists?

Attempt? I kinda get the feeling that I succeeded. :)

At what?

QUOTE:
What are YOUR opinions on what SHE said?

I haven't yet formulated one. Sorry.

Your original post makes absolutely no sense to me and this post doesn't really make any more sense of it. When you do formulate an opinion, I think everyone would be happy to hear it.

[/quote]

Sorry, just wanted to see how small the middle box can get.

And please pass the popcorn!

^


Thanks for the laff, wf.

wildfishes wrote:

QUOTE:
Littlesadie wrote:

QUOTE:
See my response in bold within the text

b]Warren wrote:[/b]

QUOTE:
Littlesadie wrote:

QUOTE:
Warren wrote:

QUOTE:
.
Littlesadie wrote:

QUOTE:
Warren wrote:

QUOTE:
.
Littlesadie wrote:

QUOTE:
[...]but, what, exactly, did she say that wasn't true?

Then there's this post by none other than double ee in the Comments at americansongwriter.com:

so what did she say was untrue?


http://www.americansongwriter.com/2010/04/joni-mitchell-slanders-bob-dylan/


Priceless.

Either quote me or don't quote me Warren, but don't quote me half assed when you can do it whole assed.

See my post in bold

I trust that by "half assed" you actually mean, partially. I'll quote you or anyone else as I see fit, "Littlesadie." If you had paid attention instead of being so trigger-happy, you would have noted that I inserted an elipsis inside square brackets to indicate that I wasn't quoting you completely. I didn't quote you completely because whatever else you said was not germane to my point.

What you selectively lopped off was substantial to my position on the subject and very relevant. It was to stress my appreciation for the man's body of work, but that there were also questionable things. Good lord knows I'd be pointed at for Bob bashing which was not my intent and what I posted was important to that point. To selectively extract what you want out of context to make some point on your position is half-assed.

QUOTE:
No one has yet been able to say how on this forum yet.

How what?

How she was wrong.

QUOTE:
Just because one article's headline uses the word 'slander' doesn't necessarily make it so.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

The specific article you linked says this: http://www.americansongwriter.com/2010/04/joni-mitchell-slanders-bob-dylan/

Which, in what may be my fault, was an assumption of a point you were trying to make.

QUOTE:
Tell us, Warren, why do you think she's wrong in what she says. Rip that article apart and HER quotes and tell us why.

Did I say she was wrong in what she said? I didn't say a thing one way or the other about her!

That is correct Warren, as I stated what was it you contributed to the thread topic and not to the poster in it? (As, apparently, with this post you are claiming you said nothing about Joni's remarks). Except to link an article that has been written 6 different ways to Sunday and read by anyone posting in here already and posted in the first post of this thread.

QUOTE:
You've contributed nothing here except to quote half assed and re-quote an article that's already been posted in several places and read.

I did not re-quote an article. I provided a link to substantiate a claim that I made.

What claim? You just stated you made no point either way.

QUOTE:
So, are you here to contribute or just attempt to stir a pot again where no problem exists?

Attempt? I kinda get the feeling that I succeeded. :)

At what?

QUOTE:
What are YOUR opinions on what SHE said?

I haven't yet formulated one. Sorry.

Your original post makes absolutely no sense to me and this post doesn't really make any more sense of it. When you do formulate an opinion, I think everyone would be happy to hear it.

Sorry, just wanted to see how small the middle box can get.

And please pass the popcorn![/quote]

I think it can get smaller. It's kind of like an optical illusion with opposing mirrors.

Hmmm, maybe not

oh yeah, and all I saw Warren do was use the part of Little Sadie's quote that was basically the same as double e's quote on American songwriter, and lay them next to each other to see they said basically the same thing. Now, how deep do we need to read between these lines? Or can I just accept this point at face value? Because if I have to read further between the lines, I think I need to get my glasses and increase font size.

Thanks, Garillia, for making Warren's comments a little more clear, although I'm still not sure what it is, specifically, the both of you are concluding. I just now read the article Warren posted and all the comments.

First, while I have read several articles on this subject, I have never read or heard of American Songwriter before now.

Secondly, my remarks were not the same as this double e person, who I can only assume is some skanky woman who named herself after her bra size, and the use of a statement like that I made is pretty unsophisticated, common and grammer school. So, are you assuming I stole this person's comment? That seems pretty ridiculous.

Unfortunately, you jacknuts have just reinforced you have nothing to say on the topic, have become stale and have nothing to offer and have waaaaaaaay too much time on your hands.

I'm not getting on Joni's back or anything, but if she says something about someone not being "authentic" - i.e. "If something is authentic, it is real, true, or what people say it is" -

Is this the "authentic" Joni Mitchell as we've always know her ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amvIxlNiaoY

JM: Bob is not authentic at all. He's a plagiarist, and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he and I.


that the best line she's written in 40 years. if only jaco were still around to make her sound good again.

Littlesadie wrote:

QUOTE:
Thanks, Garillia, for making Warren's comments a little more clear, although I'm still not sure what it is, specifically, the both of you are concluding. I just now read the article Warren posted and all the comments.

First, while I have read several articles on this subject, I have never read or heard of American Songwriter before now.

Secondly, my remarks were not the same as this double e person, who I can only assume is some skanky woman who named herself after her bra size, and the use of a statement like that I made is pretty unsophisticated, common and grammer school. So, are you assuming I stole this person's comment? That seems pretty ridiculous.

Unfortunately, you jacknuts have just reinforced you have nothing to say on the topic, have become stale and have nothing to offer and have waaaaaaaay too much time on your hands.

I'm not assuming you stole anyone's comment, or that they stole yours, or that you and double e cummings are the same person, or that Double E took their username from the BD song "It Takes a Lot to Laugh, It Takes a Train to Cry."

here's what I have to say on the topic, who gives a fart what Joni thinks or says?

QUOTE:
here's what I have to say on the topic, who gives a fart what Joni thinks or says?

Well, I do.

Anyway, to recap what I said on The Watchtower: Joni was no doubt irked by the question, or rather statement, from the LA Times reporter, which was one of the most fatuous in history. "The folk scene you came out of had fun creating personas. You were born Roberta Joan Anderson, and someone named Bobby Zimmerman became Bob Dylan."

Well, first, little Joans are often called Jonis, and Joni Anderson changed her last name not to "have fun creating a persona," but because Mitchell was the surname of her first husband.

Second, though she put it rather harshly, Joni is right that Dylan constantly creates a persona, or personas in his art. You never get a glimpse of the real man, even when you think you do. What is 'Sara'? It's holiday snapshots (which resemble everyone else's snapshots) and idealization/deification of a woman ("sweet virgin angel" "mystical wife" "scorpio sphinx" "glamorous nymph", not a real woman at all. I'd love to see him try that stuff on Joni. She's likely to tell him, "If you want me, I'll be in the bar." They come from such different sets of circumstance, and they certainly approach their art in different ways.

Third, no doubt she's absolutely sick to death of being told, as if it were a compliment, that she is the "female Dylan." No one describes Bob as the "male Joni Mitchell," and if put that way around the absurdity of the comparison becomes even more obvious. For some reason Joni is supposed to take it as a compliment. Joni is absolutely right -- she and Bob are completely different songwriters. The comparison is not only rude, it's lazy.

Fourth, Joni has exhibited an ambivalent, but generally respectful attitude to Bob in the past. No doubt she was very irritated if he did indeed disrespectfully fall asleep while 'Court and Spark' was being played for the first time, but wind on 30+ years, and what do we find Bob playing in the 12th programme ("Cars" of the first series of Theme Time Radio Hour? Why, it's "Car on the Hill" from that very album. And when Bob came to choose his contribution to a Starbucks compilation of Joni Mitchell songs chosen by other songwriters, he chose another one from that album: "Free Man in Paris." So maybe he was paying attention all those years ago after all...

For good measure Bob chose three more Joni Mitchell songs in TTRH: "Little Green" (in the "Colors" programme), "California" in the show devoted to that state, and "Coyote" on one of the "Noah's Ark" programmes.

(Some years ago I read an article somewhere that suggested that Bob's "Up to You" was an answer to Joni's "Down to You" -- yet another song from Court and Spark.)

Over the years Joni has covered Mr Tambourine Man, Girl of the North Country, and It's All Over Now, Baby Blue. She's also singled out Positively 4th Street as a song that showed her there were no boundaries to the pop song lyric.

There is a fine recording of Joni's 7 November 1998 performance in Atlanta, the final night of her tour with Bob and Van. Some yahoo is giving her lip during her set and shouting for Dylan. During her introduction to "Magdalene Laundries" (which is the finest song of the nineties by anyone), he shouts at her to shut up and get off stage.

She shuts him up with, 'You're an idiot. A rude idiot. You don't deserve Bob!" At the end of her set she announces that today is her birthday, and she's going to do an extra song, which she dedicates to the heckler (not realizing that he's been removed by security). It is "Both Sides Now," the song she wrote in her twenties that is even more appropriate in late middle age.

Joni Mitchell is sheer class.